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Wigan history - storm of 923AD

Started by: JR (526)

I wonder if anyone can shed light on this.
In David Sinclair's History of Wigan Vol. 1 (1882) he describes a great storm that hit Wigan in 923AD. He also reports that it destroyed crops which resulted in near famine. I have carried out extensive research and can't find any mention of this event anywhere. Sinclair didn't reference anything in his book so I am sceptical about this. In addition his narrative appears quite speculative in many instances, particularly in the period stretching from Romans to the Norman Conquest. However, the mere fact that he is precise about the year suggests that he may have gleaned the information from some historic document.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Started: 3rd Mar 2023 at 19:49

Posted by: JR (526)

Shortly after my posting I came across this report -
'Possible severe winter. Thames frozen for 13 weeks. Year may be 928 or 929.'
I found it at https://premium.weatherweb.net/weather-in-history-751-to-999ad/
But it doesn't make mention of a storm.

Replied: 3rd Mar 2023 at 20:04

Posted by: tonker (27939) 

Ha! They can't even give a correct weather forecast for the next two days, never mind what the weather was like in Wigan one thousand one hundred years ago.

Although, if they said "it rained", I'd believe 'em!

Replied: 4th Mar 2023 at 12:14

Posted by: ena malcup (4151) 

" A.D. 923. This year went King Edward with an army, late in the harvest, to Thelwall; and ordered the borough to be repaired, and inhabited, and manned. And he ordered another army also from the population of Mercia, the while he sat there to go to Manchester in Northumbria, to repair and to man it. This year died Archbishop Plegmund; and King Reynold won York.

From: here

No mention of Wigan, or of famine, but it seems that year the front line between Anglo Saxons and Danes was hereabouts. Something which usually impinged upon harvests, I guess had a storm amplified such difficulties it would have been worthy of mention.

"A.D. 976. This year was the great famine in England." same source.

Replied: 5th Mar 2023 at 19:30
Last edited by ena malcup: 5th Mar 2023 at 19:39:57

Posted by: ena malcup (4151) 

Beware historians: they make up stuff!

Replied: 5th Mar 2023 at 20:00

Posted by: JR (526)

Thanks Ena. I wasn't aware that the Anglo Saxon Chronicles were available online. This will be very useful in my research. Yes, you're right - some historians speculate rather than check and cross reference facts. There are also historians who have a biased political agenda such as the Venerable Bede and Cassius Dio.

Replied: 6th Mar 2023 at 19:28

Posted by: ena malcup (4151) 

I recall seeing Dan Snow on a TV program defending Historians making up stuff!

Certainly if you go back to ancient history, they would have perceived their role as involving such.

Roman Historians took their cue from the Greek tradition, and history was considered a close relative of poetry: to aggrandise and big up the attainments of their emperor/ culture etc.

At school, my history teacher tried to tell me that The Earl of Derby did not want The Liverpool and Manchester Railway on his land. So I produced the documentation to show that was untrue.

He said, "You know that, and now I know that, but the person who will mark your exam paper does not know that. You've got to choose between being right, or passing the damned exam"!

(Earl of Derby DID NOT WANT TO SELL his land, which is rather different. He was angling for the arrangement of the railway paying him a fixed rental for the land they occupied, and also a levy on all the traffic conveyed over his land: a system which had pertained to the Turnpike roads, and contributed to their deterioration. Not an option that appealed to the backers of the L&M Rly.)

Replied: 6th Mar 2023 at 20:08
Last edited by ena malcup: 6th Mar 2023 at 20:14:45

Posted by: JR (526)

Yes, it's good that we have written records/documentation, but some Roman historians and other writers often included much propaganda in their narratives.
Thanks for the interesting fact about the Earl of Derby. Similar at my school - a teacher having a strong bias to the King when teaching the English Civil War. I had to use the library to get the story from each side.
Getting back to the Anglo-Saxons, we are learning much more from archaeology and subsequently many historic representations are now outdated.

Replied: 7th Mar 2023 at 19:10

Posted by: JR (526)

Note to Tonker "Ha! They can't even give a correct weather forecast for the next two days, never mind what the weather was like in Wigan one thousand one hundred years ago.

Although, if they said "it rained", I'd believe 'em!"

Yes, agreed!!!!

Replied: 25th Apr 2023 at 16:55

 

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